Comments on: HOW ‘CAP & TRADE’ REDUCES YOUR ELECTRICAL CONSUMPTION http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/ The Canyon Country Zephyr Blog Sun, 05 Feb 2012 18:13:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Doug Meyer http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-1331 Doug Meyer Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:03:11 +0000 http://canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/#comment-1331 Actually, I should have said peak demand reduction only flattens consumption during peak hours and will push some demand off-peak, exactly what the utilities want. They'll be able to produce and sell MORE megawatt-hours off-peak using their existing megawatt capacity. Why don't the professional enviros see that they've been duped by capitalism into calling for increased efficiency? Actually, I should have said peak demand reduction only flattens consumption during peak hours and will push some demand off-peak, exactly what the utilities want. They’ll be able to produce and sell MORE megawatt-hours off-peak using their existing megawatt capacity. Why don’t the professional enviros see that they’ve been duped by capitalism into calling for increased efficiency?

]]> By: Doug Meyer http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-1330 Doug Meyer Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:18:06 +0000 http://canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/#comment-1330 Agreed with all of the above...and the utilities can't wait to limit our thermostat settings. This is apparently already happening for about 30,000 people in Kansas City, according to this article: http://www.distributedenergy.com/the-latest/honeywell-optimizer-thermostat.aspx Progressives will say it's such a minor adjustment for a small part of the day, but remember the slow loss of privacy as we all started using credit and debit cards? Imagine those millions unable to bump that thermostat one more degree on a hot evening in September. And all this will do is level off total consumption; global warming is almost an afterthought. So we lose our freedom and are no closer to addressing climate change meaningfully. In the end, where does the blame really lie? Agreed with all of the above…and the utilities can’t wait to limit our thermostat settings. This is apparently already happening for about 30,000 people in Kansas City, according to this article: http://www.distributedenergy.com/the-latest/honeywell-optimizer-thermostat.aspx

Progressives will say it’s such a minor adjustment for a small part of the day, but remember the slow loss of privacy as we all started using credit and debit cards? Imagine those millions unable to bump that thermostat one more degree on a hot evening in September. And all this will do is level off total consumption; global warming is almost an afterthought.

So we lose our freedom and are no closer to addressing climate change meaningfully. In the end, where does the blame really lie?

]]> By: sarah http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-1327 sarah Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:35:06 +0000 http://canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/#comment-1327 I think individual liberties are more at risk with this bill than anything. A company outside the US is going to gauge how long MY showers are everyday? I'd pass on this if I had a choice. Really. I guess America wanted a bigger government...and that's what they are getting. This may SEEM like a good thing...conserving energy...fine. But the more you let the government control your daily life the more they feel they can control and take away from you as a person and a citizen. Slippery slope. I'd rather be dead than red. Liberty justice freedom dissent! Like pops used to say. I think individual liberties are more at risk with this bill than anything. A company outside the US is going to gauge how long MY showers are everyday? I’d pass on this if I had a choice. Really. I guess America wanted a bigger government…and that’s what they are getting. This may SEEM like a good thing…conserving energy…fine. But the more you let the government control your daily life the more they feel they can control and take away from you as a person and a citizen. Slippery slope. I’d rather be dead than red. Liberty justice freedom dissent! Like pops used to say.

]]> By: Mark http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-1324 Mark Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:48:19 +0000 http://canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/#comment-1324 It sounds like a curious way of using technology to change people’s behavior. I am all for new regulatory and government policy to address our profligate energy use, but I am not sure that cap and trade is the best approach. Does it really force us to pay for the full impact of energy production and use? Probably not, but it is less disruptive to the status quo and makes us feel like the government is doing something, even if that something is a large transfer of wealth to CO2 generators. A carbon tax would more directly impact energy use and allow market forces to shape energy use. But is the USA public willing to pay the full cost of energy use? Not yet, we have been happily voting for leaders who do not want to force us to face the real impacts of our energy usage. Having the power company turn off our plasma TV’s might be a good thing both from environmental impact and social interaction viewpoints, but I think people will fuss like a two-year that it is unfair. We have been sold the idea that technology advances will solve all our problems. We just need to switch to renewable energy and everything will be fine! Just support the correct political party and you can go back to watching Survivor and not worry. I did some quick calculations the other day with some numbers I got off the Web, so I can’t say the results reflect the best available renewable energy generation systems. With that disclaimer, if the sun is shining it requires 10 ft by 10 ft surface area of solar panels to power a 50 in2 plasma TV. Then after the sun goes down and if the wind is blowing at 20 mph you would need five home wind power generators to keep that big screen TV running so you don’t miss tonight’s episode of American Idol. It sounds like a curious way of using technology to change people’s behavior. I am all for new regulatory and government policy to address our profligate energy use, but I am not sure that cap and trade is the best approach. Does it really force us to pay for the full impact of energy production and use? Probably not, but it is less disruptive to the status quo and makes us feel like the government is doing something, even if that something is a large transfer of wealth to CO2 generators. A carbon tax would more directly impact energy use and allow market forces to shape energy use. But is the USA public willing to pay the full cost of energy use? Not yet, we have been happily voting for leaders who do not want to force us to face the real impacts of our energy usage.

Having the power company turn off our plasma TV’s might be a good thing both from environmental impact and social interaction viewpoints, but I think people will fuss like a two-year that it is unfair. We have been sold the idea that technology advances will solve all our problems. We just need to switch to renewable energy and everything will be fine! Just support the correct political party and you can go back to watching Survivor and not worry.

I did some quick calculations the other day with some numbers I got off the Web, so I can’t say the results reflect the best available renewable energy generation systems. With that disclaimer, if the sun is shining it requires 10 ft by 10 ft surface area of solar panels to power a 50 in2 plasma TV. Then after the sun goes down and if the wind is blowing at 20 mph you would need five home wind power generators to keep that big screen TV running so you don’t miss tonight’s episode of American Idol.

]]> By: Eric Cunningham http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-1323 Eric Cunningham Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:46:40 +0000 http://canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/#comment-1323 I don't know that this kind of "covert" action will work . . . if people aren't aware there is bound to be a huge backlash when they do become aware. Obvioulsy, this would entail no real behavioral change on the part of individuals, as it is not backed by any change in belief. Granted, we may be far away from a true change in behavior, as those who deny climate change are still allowed to say so with little, if any, social repercussions (simply amazing). Governor Palin, for example, in her recent resignation speech talked about "real" climate change, refering to a change in political climate. How is this kind of ludicrous statement allowed to go unchecked? Let's raise some voices and some criticisms, change some hearts, rather than change energy meters. <a href="http://www.otakimura.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">In the Pines</a> I don’t know that this kind of “covert” action will work . . . if people aren’t aware there is bound to be a huge backlash when they do become aware.

Obvioulsy, this would entail no real behavioral change on the part of individuals, as it is not backed by any change in belief.

Granted, we may be far away from a true change in behavior, as those who deny climate change are still allowed to say so with little, if any, social repercussions (simply amazing). Governor Palin, for example, in her recent resignation speech talked about “real” climate change, refering to a change in political climate. How is this kind of ludicrous statement allowed to go unchecked?

Let’s raise some voices and some criticisms, change some hearts, rather than change energy meters.

In the Pines

]]> By: Sarah http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-1321 Sarah Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:37:00 +0000 http://canyoncountryzephyr.com/blog/2009/07/04/how-cap-trade-reduces-your-electrical-consumption/#comment-1321 Ok let me get this straight. Citizens automatically get their appliances turned off during peak hours? That's a little too much government control for my taste. If we live in a country where people have to be babied like that in order to use less energy- that is really pathetic, but maybe we are at that point. From all that I read about it- it seems like a financial setback for average Americans who are already floundering, it's poorly written, and when it comes down to it- this bill is about money, not the environment. As usual. What more do you expect from Washington? A green government? Don't hold your breath. Ok let me get this straight. Citizens automatically get their appliances turned off during peak hours? That’s a little too much government control for my taste. If we live in a country where people have to be babied like that in order to use less energy- that is really pathetic, but maybe we are at that point. From all that I read about it- it seems like a financial setback for average Americans who are already floundering, it’s poorly written, and when it comes down to it- this bill is about money, not the environment. As usual. What more do you expect from Washington? A green government? Don’t hold your breath.

]]>